Will the greens at Chambers Bay Golf Course be up to speed for the US Amateur and 2015 US Open?
There are two people I wouldn’t want to be right now: Tiger Woods, and the superintendent at Chambers Bay Golf Course.
Chambers Bay, the municipal, waterside wonder that opened in 2007 near Tacoma, Wash., is hosting the 2010 US Amateur Championship this week, clearly a “dry run” before the 2015 U.S. Open.
Mmm, maybe a bad choice of words.
The USGA is regularly criticized about the setup of its U.S Open courses, and based on what I’ve heard from golf travelers who have played Chambers Bay, the competitors this week might have a major beef with it, although for an entirely different reason.
One common complaint at U.S. Open courses is that some greens are too fast and can’t hold good approach shots. This year’s U.S. Open at Pebble Beach is a prime example (14 and 17, anyone?).
The knock on Chambers Bay, conversely, has been that its fescue greens are way too slow, at least under its “everyday” setup.
In a Seattle Times article a year ago, Tom Kite questioned whether the greens even approached the course’s stated speed of 10.5 on the Stimpmeter. “When I was there [in August, the greens] were more like seven,” he said.
He was also quoted as saying: “I know what it takes to get a course in tournament shape, and they’ve got a lot to do. I’m not concerned about the Open in 2015; I’m concerned about next year.”
Granted, that was a year ago, but a visitor to the course this past spring told me, “it was like putting on Velcro. The greens were ridiculously slow.”
Now, I’m sure the super and the USGA have been addressing this issue for the past few months, and at least one report says they actually had to water the greens to slow them down for the start of play yesterday.
(If you’d like to see the greens for yourself, TV coverage begins tomorrow on the Golf Channel, then switches over to NBC on Saturday and Sunday from 4-6pm Pacific.)
Of course, I’m not as interested in tournament conditions as I am in the everyday conditions that golfers like you and me will experience.
And since Chambers Bay is on many a golf traveler’s radar screen, my question to you is:
Have you played Chambers Bay, and if so, what was your experience with the course conditions, particularly the greens? Please share your comments below.
Have you been surprised by the course conditions (good or bad) at other, big-name courses? We’d love to hear those stories, too.
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{ 39 comments… read them below or add one }
My son and I (11 and 17 handicap respectively) had a great experience at Chambers Bay. We felt the course was challenging and having never played on that type of grass before, reading the speed on the green was difficult. I will say we thought they were consistent from hole to hole.
I played Chambers Bay about 4 weeks ago. The greens were faster than they’ve been in previous years – with the exception of #4, which had just been re-opened after some modifications. They’re still nowhere near as fast as the bent-grass greens players find at most US courses, and people need to set expectations accordingly. But they play very much like the fescue greens at other true links courses such as Bandon Dunes, or those in Scotland & Ireland.
Played Chambers 10 days ago. Outstanding experience. Course was hard and fast. The greens looked slow, but were actually quite quick. Don’t know stimp number, but wouldn’t want them much faster.
Greens a little slow in May but definitely not a 7. Biggest problem for me was that a round starting at 3PM took 5hrs20 minutes. Slow play partly because of walking but also because of people trying to find lost balls in the fescue.
A group of us played Chambers Bay in June along with the 4 courses at Bandon Dunes.
While the greens on average at Bandon Dunes were faster, I would not have classified the greens at Chambers Bay as being slow. We played the week before fathers day and the only two greens that were in question were holes 4 and 5. Hole 4 had just re-openned the green to play the hole as a par 5. Hold 5 had just re-openned the green to play as a short drivable par 4 tucked in the left corner. Besides that I would say the greens ran closer to 10 on the stimpmeter.
The day we played there was little wind, but if the got any wind with the amount of slope on many greens, anything faster than 11 would be almost impossible for the average golfer not to 3 putt.
Three of us from New Orleans played Chambers Bay 9-5-09. It rained sideways, the wind was gusting between 15 to 25 mph and the temperture was between 40 to 50 degrees. If the conditions are like that—just like us no one will have any idea of green speed. With that said we loved the course.
I’ve played Chambers Bay several times, but not this summer. The greens are often extremely slow in the winter/spring and, while there are no power carts allowed, all foot traffic including pull carts is directed across several of the greens, especially #10. Additionally, you will see horror stories about #7 where a false front on the green will send shots backwards to about 50 yards short of the green on an uphill dogleg 508 yard par 4. Possibly the most unfair hole approach I have ever seen. Hole #13 has a similar problem where a shot on the front or just short of the green may roll back 30 yards into a bunker. There may be questions on “what is a bunker”. I don’t know if this still in effect but bunkers/waste areas were decided by whether a rake was present. Given those problems it’s a great layout that just needs to be “tweaked”.
I played Chambers Bay this past June, and I would say that the conditioning was on par with other fescue grass/sandy base courses. While it was definitely not as plush as your normal upscale parkland course, it was basically the same as Bandon’s courses or the great links courses in Scotland, including the conditions of the greens. The biggest difference that I could tell from those other courses to Chambers Bay was that Chambers Bay’s bunkers seemed to be using crushed stone instead of true sand…it was hard to describe.
I did not notice the greens being exceptionally slow, although links greens typically are slower than the bentgrass greens that many of us are used to.
sounds very similar to Old Mc donald.
I had a chance to play Chambers Bay the last day before they closed to outside play on August 16th. The greens were running very true and reasonably fast. I would say an educated guess would be 9-9.5 on the Stimpmeter. The slope of many of the green surfaces would not allow excessive speed in my opinion. It will be interesting to see how things pan out this week.
I played Chambers Bay on August 6. I think, based on what I have read here, that they have speeded up the greens. The greens were not lightning fast, but they were not slow. I would guess they were running 10 to 11 on the stimp.
I was treated very well. The entire operation was smooth and professional, and the staff was consistently friendly. They made you feel that they were delighted that you were there. The one small complaint…very small….was that the snack shop next to the putting green and first tee had absolutely no breakfast items. My tee time was 8:17 and I had planned to grab something quick at the course. I was told at the clubhouse that the snack shop would have something. They had nothing but sandwiches, chips, candy bars, etc. No breakfast items of any kind. I did have delicious cookie, but breakfast it wasn’t!
Overall a great experience; wonderful course. Would love to go back and would highly recommend it.
I played Chambers in May of this year, and I didn’t encounter any slowness at all in the greens. I’m sure they played to their advertised 10.5.
And by the way, it was one of the most enjoyable rounds I’ve played anywhere (including Pebble, Kapalua, Torrey Pines, and many other “great” courses), and I would rank it right up there with them….only knock is that it is quite a walk!
Based on your review I made it a point to drive up from Green Bay WI and go play GreyWall golf club in Marquette, MI. The course was a pleasure to play and was quite interesting. I will certainly keep that in mind and may try to put a golf trip together to go up and do the stay and play if the indian casino keeps the great rates for the three courses in Upper PI. BTW most of the motels in Marquette have some stay and play rate for playing there.
Nice find!
Played Chambers last year in September after a trip to Bandon. Was very disappointed in Chambers. One of the greens was literally mud and almost no grass. Another odd thing was hitting a sprinkler head that was 3 foot off the green and positioned to effect a good shot from the fairway that was going to be at the stick. Just bad luck but never happened before in my 40 years playing. To be fair the caddy did say they had some problems with a fungus killing off the grass and it was just coming back in. I would not reccomend Chambers based on the condition when I played it, but am anxious to watch this weekend.
I played Chambers Bay 3/18/08. The greens were maybe a 5, and the grass on them had nearly an inch that you could just grab with your fingers. The caddies told me they get faster in the summer, but that they wouldn’t be mowed close until the US Am (so none of the other greens would die – 4th green was closed at that time). It was still a fun round, but I’m interested in seeing how good the greens are for the Am (and curious to know how they maintain them between now and June 2015).
Our group of 28 played Chambers Bay the last two days of July (traveled all the way from Florida and the Northeast as well) and then traveled down to play all the courses at Bandon Dunes (with a crazy stop at Tetherow in Bend, Oregon after reading about it here).
I would say that while the greens on average at Bandon Dunes were faster, I would not have classified the greens at Chambers Bay as being “velcro” slow in comparison. Maybe that is because I was pre warned and expected the worst. They were slow but not unlike some of the courses overseas. Hopefully though, they are faster this week for the Amateur.
All of our guys were blown away by Chambers Bay and everyone agreed to blow off Portland as the gateway to get to Bandon and to return to Seattle for a replay for our next trip to Bandon (the best golf destination in this country). There are some truly memorable holes out there and the views are stunning!
The staff treated our large group fantastic and the caddies in our opinion are some of the best caddies you will find at any golf destination!
We also loved the new course at Bandon “Old Macdonald”. Can a golf destination get any better than having 4 courses all on the Golf magazine top 100 list (at one golf resort) with three in the top 10???
I have played Chambers Bay 4 times, the first shortly after they opened for play and the last round was July 2009. This course is outstanding. I also experienced greens that were slower than what I was used to playing, but I find it somewhat puzzling that nobody else has mentioned that slower greens are almost required on many of the greens due to severe undulation. Several of the greens, if they were stimping at 12-13, would be nearly unplayable for most amateur golfers. 4 and 5 putting on some of these greens would REALLY leave many golfers not wanting to play the course again and I think having slower-ish greens for day to day play is intelligent. Now, for the best Ams this week and Pros in the future, absolutely make them slick.
Have played both Bandon (all 4) and Chambers Bay twice each. In its early youth Chambers’ greens look like they should be fast (contours and shine) but the fescue is typically slow. To promote year long health the fescue is allowed to grow a bit longer. For an important tournament, the supes will cur more, water less and get them up to speed. Remember that many Major courses (Augusta included) need to close the course for a few weeks after the tournament to repair the greens when they are allowed to dry out to near death. Chambers is a great layout and I hope the wind blows just enough to mess with the players’ minds. Old MCDonald will be wonderful in about two years when the greens grow in better. Amazing contouring on all of the greens and approaches.
I played Chambers with a group in late May and was pleasantly surprised by the condition of the greens, considering I had read about them being in bad shape. I would say they were a 9 plus, and very comparable to Bandon in 2008. While the experience didn’t get to Bandon’s level, as if anything could, it was awesome. My caddy at Chambers was as good or better than at Bandon, and I didn’t think that could be possible. It seemed to be a much tougher walk than Bandon, and playing 36 in one day seemed as if it would be impossible. If Bandon Dunes and Old Works in Anaconda, Montana had a baby, it would be Chambers Bay.
I played it about a year ago and yes the greens were slower than one might expect, but isn’t it supposed to a be a links style course, with slow greens? That’s just part of the course. Most of them are heavily undulated, and even when they’re slow, its still challenging. I loved the place, look forward to having dennis caddy for me out there again.
I played Chambers Bay 9/19/2008 with my brother, not too long after they opened. The greens were slow (maybe 7) but they were so new that the grass was still pretty sparse. I wouldn’t be surprised if many of the concerns about green speeds came just after they opened – they were justified then but may be resolved now. The green contours are not so crazy that faster speeds would create problems. I’m guessing they would be fine at 10 or 10.5, maybe even 11, but like many links courses they just aren’t meant to be played at 12 or 13, especially in the wind – and remember this course has exactly one tree on it to block the wind. I’ll be very curious to see how it plays this weekend, but in my opinion Chambers Bay is in the same league with the first three courses at Bandon (haven’t played Old MacDonald yet) for challenge, setting, strategy and most importantly, fun.
Played on August 16th – the course was set for the Amatuer and it was fast. The course has dried out and this makes it very challenging especially with the length of the second shots as well as the length of the par threes. Greens rolled well, pretty speedy and true. Takes a lot of imagination to play well at Chambers. Would play there in a moments notice!
I am a course rater for Golfweek and have played the course twice, including once with the on-site course architect who helped design it. I likje the course, and it is fun to play. Our second round there took nearly six hours and we finished in total darkness. I told the starter that they needed to have some type of a rule limiting players to those with a certain handicap or lower. The course is unplayable for novices and high handicappers. In terms of the Open, I don’t think that the majority of pros will like the golf course because it is too quirky and the luck of the bounce is a huge factor. The slow play penalties yesterday and 6 hour rounds in the qualifying do not surprise me at all. I also think that a US Open gallery will have a difficult time watching the tournament there. There are some holes with huge, severe rock mounds surrounding them and others where there is no fringe, and players have to pull their carts right across the green. I am planning to watch the Amateur to see how it all works out. It should be interesting. It would be a good course for the British Open.
Played Chambers about 2 years ago in Nov and not only were the greens slow, they were in absolutely terrible conditions. Bare patches, rough spots, etc. It spoiled the memory of an otherwise great layout. Its nice to read that the fescue is finally taking. At the time the pro was very concerned that they would have to rip out all 18 greens and start over with another grass.
I’ve been working as a marshall at this week’s US Amateur and the only complaints I’ve heard from players and caddies was the greens were too FAST. They were running at a 11-13 depending on time of day and with the USGA letting the course dry out for 2 straight weeks, the the entire course is rock hard, ala Pebble in June –very firm and fast. Despite the challenge, the response to the course is almost universally positive, though the USGA might want to give the players a bit more time to get around the course. There were too many slow play penalties.
Bottom line is its a great layout and the setting is over the top unique and beautiful. You have to play it!
I have never played Chambers Bay, but would love to get a chance. I am going to have to watch some of this tournament this week to see what all the hubbub is about. I hope that they have gotten the greens into shape. It is never fun to putt on greens that are slow as molasses.
I’ve played Chambers a couple times, and yes the greens are VERY slow – velcro was the exact descriptions we’ve used in the past. However, I played it also just four weeks ago, while they were working on the setup. The greens were much faster (though that made them about “above average”) but they were still keeping it watered, so it was fair. But the real issue was the fringe around the green. They had shaved down most fronts and sides, and since the course is all fescue that causes the greens to lose all shape definition. It makes it very difficult to judge safe targets for approaches, and a missed approach can easily run 40 yards in the wrong direction on many holes.
B Palosi’s comments are spot on. Was there a week ago and talked to officials, players, etc. It’s rock hard right now, super dry, and those greens will drive many excellent players nuts. It would be fun to play today but only to find out just how bad you can be punished by a great golf course set up to be as hard as possible. Set up at 7750 yards with new tee boxes on several holes, it’s not the distance that will be a problem. Getting the ball close to the hole will be the biggest challenge. I cannot wait to go back and play it under “normal” conditions.
I played Chambers a couple years ago after it opened, and I do not recall the greens being slow. What I do recall is a spectacular location and creative layout, that in places verged on gimmickry. (There is one par 5 where it was literally impossible to stop a ball rolling off the green from the uphill side.) I’m sure that some of the rough edges have been “tweaked” since then.
Played Chambers in mid-may then went to Bandon. Chambers was picturesque to say the least but not a championship caliber course and yes the greens were very slow compared to any top notch course. I enjoyed my round and the scenery is gorgeous but not worth the trip. I do hope they shape it up because it could be a great track.
Nice to hear some informed comments…I have a feeling Chamber Bay will have some severe critics at the Open. Have been watching the Amateur all week and agree that the distance is almost irrelevant..especially when drives run 50 yds in a heartbeat.
I wouldn’t spend money to watch a behind the ropes event there. Pebble Beach is a horrible place to watch an Open compared to the others I’ve been to..Olympic Club is fantastic. You can follow a complete round every hole very easily. Setting up Chambers is going to be an enormous challenge for the USGA….
My wife, son and I played Chambers Bay on August 15, 2010 just before the Amateur. The course is spectacular – perhaps Robert Trent Jones, Jr.’ finest of a long resume of courses. The sweeping views and elevation changes were designed from a flat piece of land – resulting in a fantastic golf experience commensurate with playing St. Andrews or Kingsbarns in Scotland.
The entire staff is engaging and professional. We enjoyed a wonderful brunch at the restaurant before our round and deserved our beers in the bar after. Our caddies were excellent. The greens were very fast the day we played, and after watching the matches on TV last week seemed to be running about the same speed during the tournament – I would guess 11 or 11.5. It will be a fantastic test of golf for the 2015 US Open, just as it was for the 2010 US Amateur.
I was fortunate to be able to play both courses, Chambers Bay and The Home Course, the day following the U.S. Amateur. While The Home Course’s greens were faster (they were running about 13), the undulations and overall slope of the hillside of Chamber’s Bay course made the Chamber’s Bay greens more difficult read and putt. If the Chamber’s Bay greens get beyond 11, the slopes of the greens and the surrounding hills will cause a ball that landed on one side of the green on a downslope to roll across the green and into a bunker on the downhill side.
While it may be challenging to watch one player for an entire round at the U.S. Open behind the ropes, there will be plenty of hills and spots to sit and watch the action on multiple holes at once. Also, with the Open being played in June rather than late August, the rough will likely be lusher than the dormant fescue that the amateurs faced so the USGA can be as tough as they want to be on the pros. Can hardly wait to 2015.
I have played chambers with great frustration on some holes that seem unfair that make the reward on other holes even sweeter. It will test every aspect of your game. Correct me if i am wrong. Isn’t golf about the challenge to play a course the best we can and overcoming the biggest challenge within ourselves to adapt to course conditions and the the physical and mental parts of our game. Walking creates fatigue, fatigue affects swing, then attacks your mental game. Chambers. Great.
Played Chambers the other day about a week after the U.S. Amateur. Was really impressed with the course and its conditions Ive played a number of good golf courses including Sahalee immediately before and after they held the U.S Senior Open when the rough was grown up about 4 inches and the greens were shaved down pretty good. Chambers put it to shame. The greens were incredibly firm and fast. I don’t know what they were like before the tournament but the grounds crew obviously knew how to get them up to speed in a hurry. When the tournament is not for a year of course they will slow them down because the average golfer complains about them being too firm and whines because they are not able to shoot a good score. The course also has the potential to be incredibly long and the greens have numerous shelves where the ball can break off or embankments where players can play multiple bump and run shots as we saw in the Amateur. Agree with Ray as the course is fairly difficult to walk and will make it even tougher. People shouldn’t worry about it being too easy or slow because when the time comes that course will be ready for the Open and is going to give some of the pros a lot more than they bargained for.
I played Chambers Bay in October 2007, shortly after it opened, and again in August 2008. The greens then definitely were slower than other top courses, but a decent player should be able to figure that out on the putting green. I found that the downhill putts still ran fairly quick, but uphill putts were really slow. It did look like they were much faster for the Amateur, however. In general, I think the course is fantastic, perhaps my favorite that I’ve ever played. The setting is just spectacular with the Sound, rolling terrain, train tracks, and how the clubhouse/pro shop area looks down on the entire course. It really requires a lot of imagination to play the course well. The greens are so large that different pin positions really make the various holes play more or less difficult.
I played CB three weeks before the US Amateur and it was in fantastic shape. The greens were a little slow, but that is about right for a course with almost 100% fescue. The greens were pure in that they rolled really well and they seemed to hold well for how dry it was. I played from the Navy tees and shot a 78, so to me, a 4 hdcp, it wasn’t too difficult, just an awesome, challenging layout. My playing partner had a caddy who didn’t hesitate to help me, even though he wasn’t on my bag. I would rate this course a 5 out of 5, but for one exception-the clubhouse isn’t located right on the course. This creates a problem in that even though I showed up nearly an hour before my tee time, I didn’t have as much time to warm up as I would have liked. I have played other links layouts and this is by far my favorite.
I also went to watch the final match of the Amateur and I have to say it was much more enjoyable to play. The USGA made it almost impossible to watch the match because of roping off fairways and making the patrons clamber over steep, sandy hills. I am young and in good shape and I still got tired trying to keep up with the match. I left after the first 18 holes and went and watched it after playing a quick nine at Classic Golf Club. Needless to say, I am not even going to bother to watch the US Open from the course.
played chambers end of may, had lots of trouble with long putts leaving them very short. the greens felt faster than were playing. had 44 putts and shot 87; with 3 one putt greens.
I just played Chamber’s Bay on Sept. 1, 2011. The course layout, tee boxes, fairways, and non-fairways (there’s no rough to speak of–only high grass) were spectacular. But, yes, the greens were furry, sandy, lumpy, and comically slow–almost to the point of playing the automatic two-putt rule. It’s sad, really, since this was the nicest course I’ve played thus far in the Pacific Northwest.